Make Believe Maverick

[alysheba88]

Make-Believe Maverick : Rolling Stone

[jballscalls]

the funniest part is to read the comments below the article. They are all from lefty readers. So basically this article is just preaching to the choir. Thats like when i saw that movie religilous the other night. the only people in the theater are the ones who are already non-believers, so its just reinforcing peoples beliefs instead of changing them.

My favorite part in the article was McCain saying he was going to RIO cause he wanted to get laid. Now thats Presidential!!

[alysheba88]

And people on the right will dismiss all of it as bias despite much of it being public record

[mfactor]

The main strem media were the ones that coined him Maverick, they loved him until

he won the nomination for President. Now he is Mcsame, is this news to anyone?

[cre8flow]

i am not saying any of this is incorrect

never fought in war

but i have been in some extremely dicey situations

some times you act like a hero-beyond what you thought you could have

and occasionally you crack momentarily until you can get your wits about you

not going to mock his war service

as far as cambodia is concerned-

OMFG we bombed cambodia

who cares-the enemy was there


bombing cambodia was the thing that needed to be done

this is where in a sense it all changed-suddenly the press wanted moral military warfare

war is not always confined-its a lot of insanity-it warps time and logic

[ed584]

Originally Posted by mfactor

The main strem media were the ones that coined him Maverick, they loved him until

he won the nomination for President. Now he is Mcsame, is this news to anyone?

Once established as the party nominee any candidate falls under the scrutiny of the press.

As a candidate they are know under a microscope with many more reporters assigned to delve into everything

from personal to political stands on everything under the sun.

That's a reporters job and there opinions are ever changing as the discovery of information

is found or made available up until election day.

Why constantly cry the blues that the Repubs are treated any different when both sides

have backers and detractors each candidate must deal with.

I guess it`s something to say when your sides down in the poles but it holds little water.

[mfactor]

Originally Posted by ed584

Once established as the party nominee any candidate falls under the scrutiny of the press.

As a candidate they are know under a microscope with many more reporters assigned to delve into everything

from personal to political stands on everything under the sun.

That's a reporters job and there opinions are ever changing as the discovery of information

is found or made available up until election day.

Why constantly cry the blues that the Repubs are treated any different when both sides

have backers and detractors each candidate must deal with.

I guess it`s something to say when your sides down in the poles but it holds little water.

Reporters??? Journalism???? Funny, I'm not complaining Ed it is what it is.

ANYONE who denies that the press is in the tank for Obama has their head up

their ass, The fact that McCain and Palin are as close as they are is a miracle.

As far as discovery you cannot discover if you do not dig.

[ed584]

Originally Posted by mfactor

Reporters??? Journalism???? Funny, I'm not complaining Ed it is what it is.

ANYONE who denies that the press is in the tank for Obama has their head up

their ass, The fact that McCain and Palin are as close as they are is a miracle.

As far as discovery you cannot discover if you do not dig.

I read this forum everyday. The post was not necessarily pointed toward you alone.

Would agree it is what it is.. My opinion of "what it is" differs greatly from yours.

Gosh another Revelation!

[mfactor]

Originally Posted by ed584

I read this forum everyday. The post was not necessarily pointed toward you alone.

Would agree it is what it is.. My opinion of "what it is" differs greatly from yours.

Gosh another Revelation!

I understand....We probably don't differ that much when it's all said.

[ed584]

Originally Posted by mfactor

I understand....We probably don't differ that much when it's all said.

Yep Time to play Horses!

[jimmyb]

Originally Posted by cre8flow

i am not saying any of this is incorrect

never fought in war

but i have been in some extremely dicey situations

some times you act like a hero-beyond what you thought you could have

and occasionally you crack momentarily until you can get your wits about you

not going to mock his war service

as far as cambodia is concerned-

OMFG we bombed cambodia

who cares-the enemy was there


bombing cambodia was the thing that needed to be done

this is where in a sense it all changed-suddenly the press wanted moral military warfare

war is not always confined-its a lot of insanity-it warps time and logic

Right... It wasn't Hogans heroes. The mute 'hero' would be dead if he didn't offer up something. The guy is full of ****.

The North Vietnamese soldiers displayed McCai in a local village, allowing the townsfolk to beat him with sticks and rocks as they passed. Read on about some of their tactics and tell me how much of a hero you'd be.

Nov. 11, 1966, was to have been a red-letter day for Marine Capt. Orson Swindle -- he was flying his 205th, and last, combat mission over North Vietnam. But the mission ended vastly different from the way he'd envisioned.

The F-8 Crusader he was flying was shot down at about 2 p.m., Swindle recalled during a recent interview in his office in Washington, D.C. He is close to finishing a seven-year term as a commissioner with the Federal Trade Commission.

Torture began in earnest the following day, when he was brought before three interrogators and about a dozen soldiers. He initially tried to stick to the textbook answers: name, rank, serial number, date of birth. But then the real pain was applied.

In a steady voice, Swindle described his torturers applying tourniquets to his arms with parachute cord. "They took the cord and cinched it so tightly above my elbows that it literally caused my hands to contract because of the pressure on the ligaments," he said.

And that was only the beginning. Next they tied his arms behind his back with three men applying pressure on each side. "(They) pulled against each other until my arms, they folded them up my back and my hands went back to my neck," he said.

Next the torturers wrapped cord around his body so it looked like he had no arms. They tied parachute cord around his thumbs, which were at the back of his head, and hoisted his body off the ground by throwing the cord over the rafters. Swindle said the technique pulled his shoulders out of socket.

"And it's about that point where you think you're insane, 'cause this is hurting quite badly, and there's not a soul in the world that can help me," he said.

That's when he learned to lie, figuring he could give them just enough truth to make his lies believable. When the interrogators wanted Swindle to name the men in his squadron, he told them he couldn't think in such pain. They'd have to loosen the ropes to get anything out of him. When they started to loosen his bindings, he gave them the names of his high-school football coach and assistant coach, saying that was is squadron commander and executive officer.

When they loosened the ropes some more, he gave them the names of his entire high-school football team as his squadron's pilots. Swindle chuckled as he recalled a welcome-home gala several years later in his small south-Georgia hometown. "All those guys were in the audience," he said. "And I said, 'You better not ever go to North Vietnam, because they're looking for you.'"





said the experience with the ropes from his second day in captivity was repeated four or five times before he was moved to the infamous Hanoi Hilton prison camp in late December of that year. The lies were all about coping. Prisoners learned many different ways to cope in their tortured captivity. "You give in," he said. "So don't think you don't give in. But it's how you do it and what you give them.

"You're trying to minimize what they gain from you, because we have a very strong sense of how they use propaganda," Swindle explained.

The torture wasn't all that took its toll. Minimal food wore on all the men. Swindle is 6 feet, 2 inches tall. He said he weighed about 195 pounds when he was shot down, but estimated he was at about 120 after three years in the Hanoi Hilton.

Swindle smiled, though, when he spoke of the friendships he made in the POW camps. He said it wasn't like Hogan's Heroes, the 1960s television comedy about life in a German World War II POW camp. The prisoners in that fictional camp lived together in large groups and had considerable freedom. Prisoners of the North Vietnamese were kept in small cells with no windows, often alone for long periods.

[mfactor]

Originally Posted by ed584

Yep Time to play Horses!

lmao!!

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by mfactor

The main strem media were the ones that coined him Maverick, they loved him until

he won the nomination for President. Now he is Mcsame, is this news to anyone?

He was McSame well before he got the nomination. Lots of people were calling him that when Guiliani was still in the race. And it's not like Obama got off freely. He's been called Obamanation, Obama Bin Laden, Hussein, Barry Hussein, all sorts of things. it goes both ways.

That being said, i'm all for accurate reporting and journalism, but does anyone else find it disgusting when journalists or pundits have the gall to question someones service for our country, when they in fact have never done a thing for it??

I mean I wouldnt question or belittle anyones service to our country, because i've never served, and i'm far too much a coward to ever serve. I guess i just find it annoying when people do that. McCain is still a hero no matter what happened, he served, he put his life on the line for us.

[mfactor]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

He was McSame well before he got the nomination. Lots of people were calling him that when Guiliani was still in the race. And it's not like Obama got off freely. He's been called Obamanation, Obama Bin Laden, Hussein, Barry Hussein, all sorts of things. it goes both ways.

That being said, i'm all for accurate reporting and journalism, but does anyone else find it disgusting when journalists or pundits have the gall to question someones service for our country, when they in fact have never done a thing for it??

I mean I wouldnt question or belittle anyones service to our country, because i've never served, and i'm far too much a coward to ever serve. I guess i just find it annoying when people do that. McCain is still a hero no matter what happened, he served, he put his life on the line for us.

I ummm did not know that about McSame......by the way LOVE the signature about Rocky

my family used to laugh so hard when Rocky gave the speech...then he got a standing O

The best.

[bigrun]

ABC NBC CBS PBS MSNBC NY TIMES LA TIMES ET AL......are not in the tank for Obama...
They are 'out of the tank' for McCain and 8 years of disaster with Dumya and Co..
McCain is a good guy but way beyond his time for the big job...and that airhead VP pick is just another anchor around his neck....Obama is far from the best alternative but that's the only choice there is to end this pathetic repuke rule......

[ed584]

Originally Posted by bigrun

ABC NBC CBS PBS MSNBC NY TIMES LA TIMES ET AL......are not in the tank for Obama...
They are 'out of the tank' for McCain and 8 years of disaster with Dumya and Co..
McCain is a good guy but way beyond his time for the big job...and that airhead VP pick is just another anchor around his neck....Obama is far from the best alternative but that's the only choice there is to end this pathetic repuke rule......

Afternoon Bigrun...Thanks for taking over ..GOT A HEADACKE...Late nighter poker game...

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by ed584

Afternoon Bigrun...Thanks for taking over ..GOT A HEADACKE...Late nighter poker game...

Take a couple bufferin and report back to duty......I gotta work in the bathroom and reset some tile.....later.....

[ed584]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Take a couple bufferin and report back to duty......I gotta work in the bathroom and reset some tile.....later.....

What did you do to make the bathroom tile fall off!!! Try opening a window. LMAO!!!

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by ed584

What did you do to make the bathroom tile fall off!!! Try opening a window. LMAO!!!

No window.......and it was my wife not me.......haha

[cre8flow]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

Right... It wasn't Hogans heroes. The mute 'hero' would be dead if he didn't offer up something. The guy is full of ****.

The North Vietnamese soldiers displayed McCai in a local village, allowing the townsfolk to beat him with sticks and rocks as they passed. Read on about some of their tactics and tell me how much of a hero you'd be.

Nov. 11, 1966, was to have been a red-letter day for Marine Capt. Orson Swindle -- he was flying his 205th, and last, combat mission over North Vietnam. But the mission ended vastly different from the way he'd envisioned.

The F-8 Crusader he was flying was shot down at about 2 p.m., Swindle recalled during a recent interview in his office in Washington, D.C. He is close to finishing a seven-year term as a commissioner with the Federal Trade Commission.

Torture began in earnest the following day, when he was brought before three interrogators and about a dozen soldiers. He initially tried to stick to the textbook answers: name, rank, serial number, date of birth. But then the real pain was applied.

In a steady voice, Swindle described his torturers applying tourniquets to his arms with parachute cord. "They took the cord and cinched it so tightly above my elbows that it literally caused my hands to contract because of the pressure on the ligaments," he said.

And that was only the beginning. Next they tied his arms behind his back with three men applying pressure on each side. "(They) pulled against each other until my arms, they folded them up my back and my hands went back to my neck," he said.

Next the torturers wrapped cord around his body so it looked like he had no arms. They tied parachute cord around his thumbs, which were at the back of his head, and hoisted his body off the ground by throwing the cord over the rafters. Swindle said the technique pulled his shoulders out of socket.

"And it's about that point where you think you're insane, 'cause this is hurting quite badly, and there's not a soul in the world that can help me," he said.

That's when he learned to lie, figuring he could give them just enough truth to make his lies believable. When the interrogators wanted Swindle to name the men in his squadron, he told them he couldn't think in such pain. They'd have to loosen the ropes to get anything out of him. When they started to loosen his bindings, he gave them the names of his high-school football coach and assistant coach, saying that was is squadron commander and executive officer.

When they loosened the ropes some more, he gave them the names of his entire high-school football team as his squadron's pilots. Swindle chuckled as he recalled a welcome-home gala several years later in his small south-Georgia hometown. "All those guys were in the audience," he said. "And I said, 'You better not ever go to North Vietnam, because they're looking for you.'"





said the experience with the ropes from his second day in captivity was repeated four or five times before he was moved to the infamous Hanoi Hilton prison camp in late December of that year. The lies were all about coping. Prisoners learned many different ways to cope in their tortured captivity. "You give in," he said. "So don't think you don't give in. But it's how you do it and what you give them.

"You're trying to minimize what they gain from you, because we have a very strong sense of how they use propaganda," Swindle explained.

The torture wasn't all that took its toll. Minimal food wore on all the men. Swindle is 6 feet, 2 inches tall. He said he weighed about 195 pounds when he was shot down, but estimated he was at about 120 after three years in the Hanoi Hilton.

Swindle smiled, though, when he spoke of the friendships he made in the POW camps. He said it wasn't like Hogan's Heroes, the 1960s television comedy about life in a German World War II POW camp. The prisoners in that fictional camp lived together in large groups and had considerable freedom. Prisoners of the North Vietnamese were kept in small cells with no windows, often alone for long periods.

dont get where you are coming from...

i refuse to judge mccain

i wasnt there

maybe this should be addressed to liberals etc etc

[Clay13]

Originally Posted by cre8flow

dont get where you are coming from...

i refuse to judge mccain

i wasnt there

maybe this should be addressed to liberals etc etc

Who can judge McCain after all the years he had to try and stay alive and the pain he went thru. That military bs of name,rank,serial number and date of birth just got alot of prisoners killed. If you get lucky and get out alive, your one hell of a man.

I wasn't there either, but i spent my time in the service and had weekend of training on what to do in a pow camp, and that wasn't any fun, with americans running the camp.

Yes, maybe it should be addressed by liberals, after all conservatives are to busy to face real issues.

[alysheba88]

I dont think people need to go there as far as the POW camp. What I found interesting was how often he crashed. By several accounts he was an awful pilot and had no business flying to begin with and used his connections to do so

[Clay13]

Originally Posted by alysheba88

I dont think people need to go there as far as the POW camp. What I found interesting was how often he crashed. By several accounts he was an awful pilot and had no business flying to begin with and used his connections to do so

LOL....Maybe that's why the air national guard wouldn't let George W. to flly...If he every showed up or not....

[Afleet]

<<<< I am god

[jimmyb]

Guy has more balls than anyone I know.

McCain requested a combat assignment. Once there, he would be awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and the Bronze Star for missions flown over North Vietnam.

McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission (so much for the bad pilot theory) over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him. McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information; he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care. By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.

In mid–1968, John S. McCain, Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer; he would only accept repatriation if every man taken in before him was released as well. Such early release was prohibited by the POW's interpretation of the military Code of Conduct: To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured.

In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery. Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, stopped by guards. After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession". He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine." Many American POWs were tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements; virtually all of them eventually yielded something to their captors.His wartime injuries left McCain permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head. He subsequently received two to three beatings weekly because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.

McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory. From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable, while McCain continued actively to resist the camp authorities. McCain and other prisoners cheered the U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, viewing it as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.

Altogether, McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was released on March 14, 1973

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

Guy has more balls than anyone I know.

McCain requested a combat assignment. Once there, he would be awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and the Bronze Star for missions flown over North Vietnam.

McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission (so much for the bad pilot theory) over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him. McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information; he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care. By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.

In mid–1968, John S. McCain, Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer; he would only accept repatriation if every man taken in before him was released as well. Such early release was prohibited by the POW's interpretation of the military Code of Conduct: To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured.

In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery. Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, stopped by guards. After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession". He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine." Many American POWs were tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements; virtually all of them eventually yielded something to their captors.His wartime injuries left McCain permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head. He subsequently received two to three beatings weekly because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.

McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory. From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable, while McCain continued actively to resist the camp authorities. McCain and other prisoners cheered the U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, viewing it as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.

Altogether, McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was released on March 14, 1973

Great story of a true American hero......I remember watching a tv movie on the above story, 3-4 years ago...forget who played Mc but showed all his pain and suffering and objections to being released ahead of other POW's.......but that was then and he's a bit older and weary now...If he would schitcan that airhead VP, i might swing over.....