New Cause

[machine]

I know haven't been commenting in a while, I guess I've fallen back to being a lurker. Anyways, I wanted to catch your attention w/ a new site.
The AGSC Should Do Something...Anything
I would just like you all to take a read and leave a comment. I'm tired of all the 5 horse Gr I's and horses winning and retiring. If you feel the same way please leave a comment.
ok
back to lurking

[machine]

I'm sending the email out to the members of the AGSC today. Would you rather have the talking heads at the NTRA tell you what the best stakes are w/ their win and you're in program that allows 1 win horses to take a shot at the biggest awards. Or would you rather have a congress of industries (breeders, tracks, and owners) tell you what the best stakes are? The current situation w/ the AGSC is baffling at best, but let's encourage them to do something right. Please click the link and leave a positive message.

The AGSC Should Do Something...Anything

[Breakage]

Hey buddy good to see you.

I think you are messing with something they hold too dear to do anything abt.

The whole graded stakes system gives someone in a little ivory tower alot of power.



Part of the problem is the weakness in the dollar lowers imports fr racing here,
lowers field sizes even more, makes this whole problem even worse.

[strawberryroad]

First of all.. great to see someone take some real iniaitive. however I have a couple of gripes. and hear me out, as people can disagree yet still have a meaningful conversation


1. Leroi had more than 4 starts.. he came into the BC Mile on a 6 race win streak. he just had 4 starts in america.

2. Ghostzapper was very fragile horse. it's why he missed the entire triple crown. The same thing would have been true with premium tap if he would have won last year.

3. The main concen.. is that you (and us as a whole for that matter) a fan, with no financial intrest at stake are telling people not to make financial decisions that would change the rest of their lives.

Look no farther than Super Frolic. he was a 7 YO horse who was supposed to retire at the end of the year. now he's gone and the owners get nothing. Yet no one cries a tear fort hem.. we mention it and move on.

If you owned Street Sense.. could you honestly turn down 40 plus million dollars for the horse at the end of the year? I will be honest and say I couldn't do it. Now.. after if I came across another special horse like that.. maybe. just maybe. but at the same time, no one is going to send compensation money if he gets hurt and can't go to stud.

No.. the problem we have is that the economics in racing has not caught up with he economics in breeding. SS has won everything he could possibly win this year and hasn't cracked 3 million in earnings for the year (I don't think.. if so not by much). Standing at stud for about 75k next year.. which is where he will be around give or take.. he will damn near double that amount.

No. Our problem in horse racing is that our "stallion making races" aren't worth a damn (relatively speaking) financially. New york's most important race int he older division year in and year out is the met mile.. and it's for what.. 600k? That might have been a lot 15 years ago. The cash call mile, a what.. 3 year old race, and a grade 2 out in cali is a million dollar race.

What I'm getting at is, I promise you, the second it's financially fiesable to stay in training, horses will stay in training. another problem we have is that uS based horses wont' travel to where the money is and all of our horses are dirt, and all the rEAL money is on turf.

You want to talk about owners keeping their horses in training? Look at Romanti owned by Godolphin. He's 5, will be 6 next year, has won 3 grade 1's already, and Godolphin has already confirmed he will be back next year. when you can race in the Melbourne Cup, the Ark,t he Hong Kong Gold Cup, the Sheema Classic, the Duty Free and the BC Turf or mile.. plus various other races across the world over a million dollars, it's (gasp) actually financially fiesable to race isntead of go to the shed!

the problem is not the graded stakes system.. it's needed and it's been around for over a half a century in the world as a whole.

[DanteMann]

You are right strawberryroad, and it is something that I have been saying for years -- the breeding "tail" is wagging the racing "dog". I don't see any end to it either, people still pay way too much for a 2yo that can run a fast 1/8 mile, and if is is well enough bred, they get some black type on the resume, and send it off to the breeding shed, where they hope to make back their individual investment.

The problem is that running a racetrack isn't a profitable business, while breeders can continue to sell dreams to people with more money than sense.

[machine]

3. The main concen.. is that you (and us as a whole for that matter) a fan, with no financial intrest at stake are telling people not to make financial decisions that would change the rest of their lives.

That's not what I want. I want it to be more difficult to retire a Gr I winner who's done nothing else. I'm thinking Bandini, Friends Lake, High Fly, and all the other horses who have the ability to go to the shed and put on their catelogue page Gr I winner.

I didn't want to put a specific idea in the letter because I'm not connected with the industry as you say. However, how wouldn't this work:

AGSC scraps I, II, III's and just gives a number to each race. BC is worth 1000, KD, 750, Haskell 300, Norfolk 100, Flower Bowl 420, whatever they come up with (they currently do this, but then regroup all the races into the 3 we see). Then they say winner gets 100%, 2nd gets 60%, 3rd gets 40%, also ran gets 15%, whatever. Now horses can still retire off the backs of prestigious wins like the classics, however buyers might start to look for a Gr I winner who scored in the top 10 of his group, or a Gr I winner with points across the different divisions. The Buyers want a horse who compiles wins not just a one trick pony.

On top of that standings draw in the casual viewer (W&YI proves that casual fans just need a story to follow) who may or may start wagering either way their eyes are worth money.

Racing has a terrible image that is untrue (single, loners with low income and no college education ntra 2004? report) that keeps advertisers away, plus no one likes to sponsor gambling (Hell Vegas would rather advertise hookers and loose morals than the slots "what happens in vegas stays in vegas). However, the truth is the exact opposite horse fans are family, uppermiddle class, who have education, if all of sudden the sport focused on the sport (rather than the gambling) advertisers would follow. Then you'd be able to have your $5million grade I's.

As it currently stands I bet most tracks could lower their purses and you'd still ahve the same type field show up. These trainers and owners aren't chasing paychecks, they are chasing prestige, and my site is about redifining the paradigm of prestige in this sport.

Finally, what's the big deal about signing it. Gary West did, and left a great comment (that I disagree with totally), but that's the point, just be heard!

[strawberryroad]

still pay way too much for a 2yo that can't run a fast 1/8 mile

fixed it for ya

[strawberryroad]

Originally Posted by DanteMann

You are right strawberryroad, and it is something that I have been saying for years -- the breeding "tail" is wagging the racing "dog". I don't see any end to it either, people still pay way too much for a 2yo that can run a fast 1/8 mile, and if is is well enough bred, they get some black type on the resume, and send it off to the breeding shed, where they hope to make back their individual investment.

The problem is that running a racetrack isn't a profitable business, while breeders can continue to sell dreams to people with more money than sense.

that's something else I have a gripe with to.

The lying ass race track owners. Voodoo Economics at it's best. The same Track the Magna has been hooping and hollering about that they are throwing 2-3 million in a quarter because it's bleeding, when they bought out the rest of the Maryland jockey club, it was reported that De Francis and I quote "found a way to turn a profit for the last 10 years"

WHICH IS IT!!! are you broke as can be and out on the corner, or are you making sacrifices, but yet still not in the red?

It's nothing wrong with saying "hey.. we are int he black..b ut we could be doing better if you do x and x and x which would cause y to happen and would benefit you by z"

No one wants to hear your pity party when you aren't broke. you aren't struggling. some tracks... Great lakes downs... yeah.. they are doing bad. Oaklawn down here is doing better than ever. I'm done some research.. with Simulcating.. the best thing ever.. ADW's, the tracks.. no magna and laurel aren't actually loosing money at the two maryland race tracks.. they just are pissy because they aren't making as much as they could be with slots, and that was the entire plan when they bought pimlico.


you can't sit here and tell me that Santa Anita park is LOOSING money. No way in hell. might not be doing as well as possible. but they aren't bleeding. but it's pitty stories like that that piss educated people off.. because they know better. You get 10-15k people a day at your track, plus when in season another 10ish percent of all us bets on line.. you aren't bleeding. shut up and stop pimping slots every 5 mintues.

[strawberryroad]

Racing has a terrible image that is untrue (single, loners with low income and no college education ntra 2004? report)

lol, that's pretty much me in a nutshell.. 24.. dropped out of college tos tart my own business and sold it 2 years ago. I'm single and I don't like people for the most part. although I hate casinos.. Ilive at the horse track.

However, the truth is the exact opposite horse fans are family, uppermiddle class, who have education, if all of sudden the sport focused on the sport (rather than the gambling) advertisers would follow. Then you'd be able to have your $5million grade I's.

you are 200% right and I dont' see what is so hard of a concept to grasp that... you don't have to bet on the actual races.. to enjoy them. I can sit down and watch HRTV from 11am until midnight and not place one bet.. do it all the time. I love horse racing... the fact that you can bet on it is an added plus.

horse racing officials are stuck in the 60s. When you only have 40k people at Belmont to see the best filly I've seen since silverbulletday.. and probably better to be honest.. going up in a race her half brother won the previous year.. and she had a legit shot.. yet not a one TV commercial?

you show racing basically 1week a year.. the triple crown trail.. and the BC races. and wonder why casual fans turn.. they don't know nor to they really give a damn who Invasor is.

when what is becoming seriously.. the biggest sporting event in the world, the Dubai World Cup races... with the whose who in the world is there and the richest day in sports as a whole.. and ABC has a FREAKING TAPE DELAYED 2 races, so they can show a watered down Florida Derby? you gotta be kididn me.. i couldn't sleep the night before the world cup.. literary.. i was up at 7am watching HRTV wide awoke, taking in the best horses in the world going at it.

I have yet to show one person, the true meaning of horse racing, and they not fall in love with the sport. For crying out loud I was a high school basketball player and it doesn't hold a candle to the excitement I get watching a horse race. that should speak volumes.

[turflover]

The stupidity of the overpriced sales gives us a horse like the GREEN MONKEY for 16mil.... He would have to sweep the Dubai card to get close to getting his money back.................
Stuck in the 60's... I wish , they run tracks more like the 40's-50's like they are the only game in town....
Towels-hats-clocks- great promos.... not..... How about being more fan friendly and reasonable with prices and really compete to get fans and groups out to the track.....

[strawberryroad]

the green monkey shouldn't count. that was just a "mine is bigger than yours" contest between two people.

The numbers you should be worried about are like Checkov for 4.3ish million.

you don't HAVE to bid. there isn't a law. I watched keeneland sales this past month on video.. the high priced horses take up the first book.. not even really aLL of that. the other what..13 days.. are resombly priced horses

i want to post a thread I made on a different fourm about 2 weeks ago.

anyway, so I decided, I was going to take a sale.. the the 05 Keeneland September yearling sale, and update progress of the sales toppers

at least every one over 1 million dollars

DB/BR.C. Lemon Drop Kid -- Myth to Reality (FR) (MYTHICAL KID)
1.4 million

don't know much about his races as I can't pull them up. but he's 1 for 4 so I suppose he's a maiden winner.


DB/BR.F. Storm Cat -- Onaga (Kaseema)
1.1 million

only raced once, won race. racing in newmarket

GR/RO.C. Unbridled's Song -- Roll Over Baby (incriminate)
1.5 million

Not one of Unbridled's best offspring, but not one of the worst either..

the dam has a neat stat.. like 5 of 7 offspring have won at first asking.. as did this one.. but hasn't won since. has ran in the Iroquois and got dusted ironically by Tiz Wonderful.. and was not a longshot int he race.. so I guess you can say he sniffed the derby trail. hasn't done jack since not in the money


DB/BR.F. Storm Cat -- Ruby Ransom (Rubycat)
1.1 million


Unraced



DB/BR.C. A.P. Indy -- Sahara Gold (Saraha Heat)
3.4 Million

Horse has ran in such world wide prestious races like the Iowa derby... because you know... guys like Tabor are sitting up at night mulling over the Arc or that darn Iowa Derby. and he came in 8th.. did better in the Grade 2 National Museum, 6th.

Hope is not all lost for this one however.. if he can somehow figure "it" out.. and get at least a grade 2 win.. we aren't even asking for a grade 1... they will make their money back at worst.

B .C. Gone West -- Santa Catalina (Just Julian)
1.6 million

half brother to golden missle. doesn't matter. unraced.


B .C. Storm Cat -- Serena's Song (colorful score)
3.5 million

in the UK unraced



DB/BR.F. Mr. Greeley -- Silvery Swan

2.7 million

damn I can't even find him. whoever he is, he's a full brother to EL CORREDOR. however I wuld think his name would be somewhere if he has actually done something.


DB/BR.C. Storm Cat -- Simadartha (Top class)
1.6 million

he's in the back of the class. unraced


DB/BR.F. Storm Cat -- Strawberry Reason (queenie cat)
1.7 million


of course, unraced. however i'm pretty darn sure she's a half to vindication so maybe all isn't lost for this one.

a picture of what will end up being themost important and significant moment of her life

H o r s e P h o t o s . c o m


B .C. Forest Camp -- Taegu (First degree)
1 million

hasn't broken maiden in 5 tries.

DB/BR.C. Storm Cat -- Ajina (Al naahadth)
3 million


unraced


B .F. Kingmambo -- Balistroika (empress olga)
1.5 MILLION

Unraced... broodmare value with her pedigree, but unraced nevertheless.



B .F. Gone West -- Candleinthedark (Gone Candle)
1 million

unraced


DB/BR.F. Danzig -- Celtic Melody

roughly 1 million

lol, name isn't even in the database.


DB/BR.F. Kingmambo -- Escena (queenofalldiamonds)
2.7 million

unraced. hell of a turf pedigree and should make a good broodie.. but again.. unraced


GR/RO.C. Unbridled's Song -- Escrow Agent (corporate trust)
1.7 million


again.. unraced

CH .C. Giant's Causeway -- Golden Attraction
1.5 million

not even in database.



B .F. Danehill -- Hidden Storm (Queen of Frances)
1.45 million

Queen of the barn. unraced.


B .C. A.P. Indy -- Key to My Heart (Sahmoon)
1.4 million

hey he ran a race!!!! 3 of them. and lost all 3. still a maiden. Karien nonimated him for the TC trail..lol, one step at a time man.. one step at a time.

lol, hasn't been within sniffing distance of the pack in all 3 of his races. time Squared did break his maiden against him.


B .F. Storm Cat -- La Affirmed (Juilya space)


1.5 million

unraced

CH .C. A.P. Indy -- Magicalmysterycat (A P Magic)
2.3 million

Unraced due to injury. Standing stud in South Africa


B/BR.C. Fusaichi Pegasus -- Northern Hilite (Pegasus Power)

1 million

race twice, lost both



CH .C. Storm Cat -- Secret Status (Objectivity)
6.3 million

I'll show you objectivity.. you are overpriced

.. you haven't raced.. how's that for objectivity?


DB/BR.C. Storm Cat -- Serena's Tune (Mutawahej)
3.1 million

UN-RACED

B .C. A.P. Indy -- Snow Forest (PAVAROTTI)
2.5 million

finally a horse I actually know!!!

not a BAD horse actually. I won't trash him. I won't trash any horse but you get where I"m going. he actually has a little talent. his first race he ran into a buzzsaw who happens to be my fav 3YO, Air Commander and got noised out.

In his 2nd race he ran into another one who turned out to be a future grade 2 winner and can still be a grade 1 winner Albertus Maximus.

finished 2nd both races.


lost an allowence race ont he kentucky oats undercard... came in 5th.. remember that day was an extremely sloppy track. with that said... another AP Indy offspring didn't seem to have a problem with it later that day Wink

in the Round Table (i can't believe Round Table can't even get a freakin graded stakes.. LOL, HE CAN'T EVEN GET A FREAKIN TURF STAKES!! WHAT KINDA CRAP IS THAT!!! THAT' SLIKE GIVING CITATION A 2FURLONG BABY RACE STATE BRED STAKES.. ARLINGTON OUT TO BE SHOT FOR THIS)

anyway.. beat a pretty decent field including the most overhyped horse on earth, Time Squared, Prom shoes as well as Dominican.

all in all.. the pletch factory will work though conditions until he gets at least a grade 2 win and with that pedigree, money will be made time and time over


B .C. Storm Cat -- Tomisue's Delight (Mr. Sidney)
3.9 million dollars

1 race, I think finished 5th.


DB/BR.C. Storm Cat -- Tranquility Lake (jalil)
9.7 million

ROTFL, okay let's just say you won't mistake him for his full brother, after market, any time soon. unraced

DB/BR.F. Storm Cat -- Warrior Queen (Eqyptian Queen)
3.8 million

Half to AP Warrior. unraced


B .C. Kingmambo -- Words of Warwords (Soul of a Nation)
1. 45 million

unraced

CH .C. Giant's Causeway -- Aquilegia (Friendly Giant)
1 million

unraced

CH .F. Giant's Causeway -- At the Half (A Footstep away)

1 million

A foot step away.. but a mile away from ever seeing the track. unraced


CH .F. A.P. Indy -- Banshee Winds (Indys windy)

1.1 million

it's a sad day when a filly that has raced 4 times and won 31k is a success.. but she made it to the track and won a race. they will make their money back in the shed with her.


CH .F. A.P. Indy -- Better Than Honour (Rags to Riches)
1.9 million

don't need to comment here. obvious success.


B .C. A.P. Indy -- Call Me Fleet (Needhams fort)
2 million

unraced

DB/BR.C. Unbridled's Song -- Cruising Haven

1 million

not even in database


GR/RO.F. Unbridled's Song -- Golden Ballet (stage luck)
1.6 million


2 starts, broke maiden already.. the book is still out for the most part on this one.



DB/BR.C. Fusaichi Pegasus -- Hishi Nile (Emperor Augustus)
1 million

unraced

CH .C. Mr. Greeley -- Dreams of Success (pauillac)
1 million

not a bad colt actually.. raced twice, won 2 of them. will he earn his money back? maybe, maybe not.. but the book is still out


DB/BR.C. Distorted Humor -- Weekend in Indy
1 million

I don't even have to look that one up, that's any given saturday

i don't understand how a colt with that pedigree, top and bottom, can go for just 1 mil when you have unproven mares throwing 3-4-5 million dollar colts.

I am pretty sure he was pinhooked as a 2YOIT sale.. I might be getting him mixed up with another colt.. for 1.4 mil?




anyway...that's it.

very veyr intesting as I was going along. you can take out say, 4 of thoose horses, and if I told you this was a churchill 25k claiming non winners of 2, youd believe me.